Published on www.acadun.com
The Netherlands
1th April 2014
Discussion Linkedin: “Think Tank” group
Tittle: “The enlightened have proclaimed that man is not the doer. What does this mean?”
31th march 2014
L1: Because there is NO man / woman around . Nature just dance in Free Flow style ! t.A
AAU: Dear L1 The enlightened see a man and woman around. They even talk to them. Are objects not around too? The enlightened uses objects daily. Yet he says man is not the doer. What does this mean? AAU
L2: Depends not definition of man. Normally, we identify ourselves with the body. If, however, body is the doer, it should continue doing after death. Who am I is the real question?
AAU: L2, Common sense, logic, reason and science reveal that the body cannot do anything after death. Common sense, logic, reason and science reveal that the body cannot do even when alive, though it appears to. So the enlightened’s proclamation was correct. If the question is answered, you would know the answer to the question, who am I? AAU
L1: Dear AAU Thanks for sharing, my 1st comment on : NATURE in Dance ........... is the same as your observation of - cannot do anything when alive or after death, NO one can control anything . T.A
1 april 2014
AAU: L1, Thanks for responding. You are correct. The question remains, why cannot anything be controlled by anyone? AAU
L1: No ONE can control anything, because in every minute, there are many Zillion of diverse activities happening simultaneously, at 1 GO - naturally . T.A
2th april 2014
L2: Not only the zillions of diverse activities (inside and outside the mind), but also the zillions of thought waves moving in atmosphere, many of which my (mind) antenna captures.
AAU: Spot on L1! Life is so every moment naturally, albeit illusory, hence man is not the doer, speaker or thinker. AAU
AAU: L2 Mind is not an antenna that captures thought waves. Sound waves include words, and they enter the ear from outside whether man likes it or not. Thought waves are personal and do not enter the ear from outside. AAU
L3: please define ' enlightened ' in your topic thank you
AAU: L3, An absolute understanding and realisation that the ‘now’ is eternal, timeless and thoughtless and the world man and mind is an optical and auditory illusion of light and sound, which is light too, but at a lesser speed than that known to man.
3th april 2014
L3: Hi AAU, thank you. Im not in that camp to believe such. I believe there was a creation at some point of the things we know as humans. Only thing I know is that we dont know all and we dont know what we dont know. Time will give us the proof, and in my view will that be on the day we die and continued on judgement day. have a good day all
AAU: L3, I am not asking you to believe anything, but life is timeless and thoughtless, whether anybody likes it or not. Just validate it yourself and be clear about it. That there was a creation at some point is a belief. The validation of all that exists now would reveal that it is not possible. Surely we don’t know all, because the mind is limited and surely we don’t know what we do not know which is proof that mind is limited. Time will not give us proof of anything, as time is a thought in the limited mind. The proof that time could give us would be limited too.
L3: AAU, I see our lifes end at some point and the fact that we write here shows we have thoughts. The universe is expanding ever since -- meaning if we go back in time it must have started somewhere .. and if we proceed in time the universe will be bigger .. our earth and the moon etc. are orbiting in controlled timely mode ...thats a fact .. not a believe. Time will tell, same as time taught us that the earth is not flat, and not even round. In time we will discover more. I doubt however that we will ever comprehend everything --- we as humans are not even able to create a maggot out of thin air ( as we know the animal today ) let alone that we will be able to create another universe ( as we know it today ) have a good day all
L4: AAU, Within the Infinite and Unified Ground of Being that gives rise to everything and nothing there is no "outside" or "inside" receiving. The continuum plays through us. We are like fish in the ocean. Or simpler yet, hollow holograph "tubes".
L2: AAU, generally, I agree with you, however thoughts are also waves at a frequency that can enter the body, even through skin and are captured by mind, even without our realizing it, that's why often, silence is so eloquent.
4th april 2014
AAU: L3, Yes our lives will transform but will not end, because our bodies are made up of energy and energy transforms one form to another and never ends. Yes we have thoughts and we write too. Yes there are facts too. But facts are not the truth. Yes there is time too, but not as an actuality in life but just as thoughts in the mind. In time man will surely come to know more. It is wise, however, to understand whether time, or a fact could be real as it is believed to be, or whether it is illusory, because every atom of life is light. It is wise to understand how maggots come into being, as every atom of a maggot is not made up of maggot stuff, but is made up of energy which is light. The same applies to every atom of man, universe, earth and moon; it is only made up of light.
AAU: L4, If every atom of that which arises from within the infinite and unified ground of being is energy, which is basically light, would not that which arises from the unified ground, for example the fish and the ocean, be a reflection of light, meaning illusory and not real? Simply, as you rightly say, a hologram.
AAU: L2, If skin can talk or think, thought waves could enter the skin. The proclamation is man is not the doer, what does this mean?
L3: man is the doer of his own actions and responsable for it-- one does more then the other but we do it -- whether be successfull or not is something else. we decide ourselves what to do or not to do at any given moment, and decide on the way how to do it.
AAU: L3, If man can do anything, he can do it because he believes and knows from his memory what he can do and how to do it. For example, man knows, because of his memory, that he has to brush his teeth every morning after he gets up. He also knows how to do it because he has done it on the previous days. So he brushes his teeth every day. The same principle applies to anything that man can do. He believes that he can do it because his memory informs him that he can do it, but also how to do it. However, if he were honest, he would know after he brushes his teeth that he did not brush his teeth that exact way the day before. So, could memory and mind have enabled man to brush the teeth every day, or could they have actually enabled man to do anything when it was actually done. The question man needs to ponder is whether it is man, because of his mind and memory, who brushes his teeth or does anything, or life that brushes his teeth and does everything else too. Man also needs to ponder the statement of the enlightened that man is not the doer.
5th april 2014
L3: Hi AAU, I dont agree that men can do anything. For example men cannot create a maggot as we know it today, nor can men create another universe. If, as you said, that men only takes from his memory then we would still be running barefooted covered with some leaves :-) Men has the capability to learn and develop themselves and create / invent new things. All men are different according to their education / experiences / background / believes / location / cultures / emotions / etc. and surely we are not robots able to copy things identically the next time we do it -- we all brush our teeth slightly different way then yesterday. also we are not born with a toothbrush in our hands :-) but it was taught by our parents - and in some places no toothbrush is used. Man is the doer and decicion maker and we all have different capabilities in doing obviously. I guess this is your field of expertise which I respect - but I think we have different views about this topic which is fine for me. have a good day all
AAU: L3, That man is not running barefoot covered with leaves now, is proof that man does not make his memory but it is life that evolves memory in man, and man is not the doer, which he never was, even when running barefoot covered with leaves. Man would require memory to learn, develop, create and invent. But he has no control over his memory. Life developes, creates and invents things including memory. That man can learn, develop, create and invent new things is illusory and not real. Life is diverse and similar but never identical. That is why every moment with its education, experience, background, beliefs, location, culture and emotion is unique and mysterious and not depended on memory. Man certainly did not make the moment to be in it. The moment received man within it. Ponder who could have taught our parents? Be grateful for the tooth brush as some do not have it. The illusion that man is the doer is huge. That man is not the doer is the realisation of the enlightened and not my view or opinion.
L3: AAU, If men is not the doer, then what are we all doing ? in your view everything is an illusion and nothing is real ...? some people have a big memory and are able to increase it by practicing / learning. that men came from barefooted to protective footwear is the proof we learn and develop. that we came from using pigeons to fast internet is the proof we learn and develop and are able to use our past experiences and memory and create something new and more efficient and comfortable. you also believe that men is the doer .. ------------------------- quote: 'That man is not the doer is the realisation of the enlightened and not my view or opinion' unquote. ------------------------------------- however, whatever it is or not is -- it all wont change a thing whatever we believe or not. have a good day all
6th april 2014
L2: The doer is ever present inside. The tools, physical, intellectual, human are all provided by the ever present super-consciousness, the eternal Energy, or God, as one may like to call, and so with faith in self one is successful.
AAU: Hi L3, Man needs to ponder (if pondering happens) whether the doing happens or is man really doing, as there is no evidence of time within a moment in life. To my understanding, everything has to be illusory as everything is made up of atoms, which is basically light. Illusory does not mean it does not exist. You talk about big memory etc., but you have not given thought as to how man came to have memory? You give more credit to intellect gifted by life to man, than to life’s intelligence. Life sophisticates every moment and the sophistication is not controlled by man, though man takes credit for it. That man is not the doer is a statement I agree with, and it is not a view or opinion given by me, for it is obvious and evident that man is not the doer. If beliefs are meant to change they will and it is not up to man, this is further proof that man is not the doer.