Conversation: Marcus Stegmaier and X
X: I had a rough trip. And didn't handle it all well. Just a lot of internal mind stuff.
M: What do you mean?
X: That all this is illusion and even the ego, witnesser being an illusion. It all seems real and even the ego and thoughts etc come from the source and I have nothing to do with it. It seems life is really playing this game. And most suffer because of it, including me. I am speaking relatively. It seems personal and I know intellectually it isn't.
M: Something is aware of the suffering, of the ego, just watch and wait. there is no thought lasting forever, did you notice?
X: Yes. It is all passing. As quickly as it appears it is gone. Nothing sticks.
M: Tell me, what was your mind suffering about?
X: One of the suffering issues was that much reference is made to the sage and how the sage looks and handles life. Being convinced fully with full understanding that they are not the doer. I am not there yet. How many sages are there? Not too many. And after all the listening to Shankar and reading on a daily basis it seems that full understanding hasn't happened. I still believe some of it is real. Shankar mentions there are those in the audience that have been with him ofr over ten years and still haven't received the understanding. So there is a feeling of disappointment. And why participate in the Olympics when I know I won't stand a chance. I can't help it and I am not the doer but I am part of the play of light and sound. So whatever life has me do or think is all from the source good or bad I feel like an outcast. and lost and cannot be found. There is no individual me. So on and so on...
M: First, it is a wise insight to notice that there are still thoughts that appear real. Second, wisdom is not a goal to be reached. Your life is unique! Third, it is, as you know, the mind that wants to be one the "best", or a "sage" and there is a kind of feeling, not to be part of the society any more, if the understanding deepens. You don't fit anymore into the expectations of others when wisdom grows, the mind feels lonely, this could change into aloneness. When you want to be like anybody else, for example a sage, this would not be very wise, everybody has to be what and who he is at any given moment, illusory it may be.
X: That's it. There is this aloneness. I don't fit. My friends and their conversations I don't care to participate. Feeling of being an outcast. Not wanting or chasing the things of this world. The sage is steady as Shankar says. So it gives the impression from my mind that he has something going on that the rest lack. That he has a deeper understanding that the rest don't possess.
M: Just live YOUR life, my friend, this is more than enough - this is the difference and the deeper understanding!
X: That's all one can do.
M: Wisdom therefore is not a possession! It is to loss of it. The sage has nothing, is nothing and therefore does not lack anything. The mind interprets the sage: “I want, what he has...“ The sage understands, there is nothing to possess!
X: Yes. Possession is an illusion.
M: Good. So be what you appear to be and don't ever want to be anything else.
X: All misery is of the mind But what gets me is that it comes from the source or it wouldn't be there, I have no control or any say what thoughts arise or not.
M: Let the mind alone, be alive, trust my words. yes it comes from the source, that you may understand, it is not there and yet appears to be there. The mind is the greatest gift in life!
X: Okay.
M: Without the mind you would not be able to understand that it is illusory.
X: It is not there but it appears to be there.
M: Be grateful for every thought, negative or positive it may be. The negative feelings make you even more aware! They are the best that could happen. Especially when something extraordinary happens in our lives we become aware of the conditioning of the mind, be grateful.
X: How can just looking and witnessing transform or make a change? Yes.
M: The looking and witnessing IS the change, everything changes anyway.
X: Ok
M: Witnessing understands this whereas the mind wants to alter, change and shape it, this is the trap of the ego, witnessing, if it happens, understands and watches.
X: So what's the point? At death of the body the mind goes with it and there is the no state regardless whether one has understanding or not.
M: Are you dead now?!!
X: No. Yes, I am projecting into the future which doesn't exist.
M: So be alive now and understand that it really does not exist!
X: How quickly the mind traps you.
M: Always and again and again. Yet, the understanding deepens, you will notice.
X: I see myself age and quickly how little time I have left here on this planet. I don't want it to be wasted.
M: But you will not "know", the mind waits for "enlightenment" and i promise, nothing of that kind what the mind believes to be "enlightenment" will ever happen, don't waist your time, illusory it may be, with searching for something that is not there. Just understand whatever the mind shows you, one by one.
X: It seems I have wasted and have been seeking most of my life. Now it seems it has dropped. Been chasing my own tail.
M: ...in the Now. Contentment is in the NOW.
X: Yes. Not in the mind
M: There may be sadness about the wasted time... Yet, understand: Everything is as it should be, because it could not be different.
X: But I couldn't help it. It happens.
M: This is your unique journey, be grateful, understand this and you understand that it does not need to be changed.
X: Ok. It is what it is. The mind always wants it to be different.
M: What do you want? Whatever it is, it will go anyway, and therefore the mind wants it again and again.
X: So true. Nothing will bring fulfillment. It will bring excitement but never will it last.
M: If this is really understood, well and good, if it takes some more desires and some more excitement to understand it, well and good, too!
X: So much has dropped and faded away. Thus the feeling of aloneness. before the pursuit and wanting of a nice relationship but even that is not chased after anymore. Wanting of money only ignites wanting more. Everything seems like a nice gift wrapping but the box is empty.
M: Yes, the mind swallows it all, and still is hungry.
X: So true. Seems like what you shared is good news and bad at the same time.
M: Good news for you, bad news for your ego.
X: Like being told there is no heaven or nirvana. No Santa Claus. For so many years being a Christian and believing that after this miserable life heaven with God awaits and there happiness for eternity. That has dropped and that is a huge one.
M: You loose everything, and are left empty-handed, and this amounts in gaining everything, but as an illusion! Eternity is here and now. Promises are for the future, and it does never come.
X: That has to sink in. When will it - who knows.
M: It happens timelessly, for life is timeless.
X: Yes. And so unpredictable. Well a lot to ponder. Thanks. I just felt frustrated and so alone. Very few people one can talk to about this. Most are just not interested. Even not getting along with family members is happening. Trusting life is a huge one.
M: When understanding deepens...
X: When I see that there are those that end up in jail, or in a lot of pain and suffering, one never knows what will happen and the mind fears the worst. Especially at an older age.
M: I understand. Understanding that the mind is illusory does not make relationships easier, in particular with the near and dear ones. They may not understand you and your change, they may feel neglected, rejected or somewhat, or they think you are not interested in their problems any more. The mind expects that the other share its beliefs this is supposed to be love. It‘s not easy for others to handle a relationship with someone who understands what the mind thinks to be love is not love. This is a trap and it is not easy to get out, because the ego feels lonely.
X: Yes. Whatever the mind thinks is illusory. Shankar says trust life and as the minds sees it life yes is what makes the beautiful flower bloom and grow and be. Life is also what makes a hurricane come and blow the flower away into many bits and pieces.
M: ... and transforms it into a new appearance.
X: That is what the mind leaves out.
M: The mind functioning in duality, does not understand that even duality is actually one, appearing as two: growing and dying are one and the same: transformation.
X: Yes. The mind sees it as separate.
M: Yes. I'm tired, have to go to bed.
X: OK. Thanks so much. Take care. Thanks again.
M: I also enjoyed the conversation. Bye.
X: Bye.