Conversation: Marcus and Nicolas
Dear Marcus,
there are many daydreams which happen simultaneously but there are no “dreamers“ which move in space and time because space and time are just parameters of extension of perception (illusion) and come into existence only within the dreams and not outside of them.
Marcus: Consciousness appears as many optical illusions called "man" in thought-form, an auditory illusion of sound in the mind. It is all One nevertheless. Space and time are thoughts in the mind and not an actuality in life. Life is light and sound.
Nicolas: In other words: each perception has to extend itself in space-time to be able to come into existence. Our persons are part of our dreams and seem to move in space and time. Our true nature, Self, Consciousness, Tao or whatever we may call it, is without attributes beyond space and time.
Marcus: The real/pure light reflects itself as consciousness, the five elements (earth, fire, water, air, space-time), matter, vegetation, animals and man. All attributes are an illusory expression of the real. Life made itself appear in thought-form in the human mind. This mind is the illusion: Maya.
Nicolas: Therefore one could not say that “your dream“ happens somewhere else compared to “mine“: There is nothing but “here“. One also could not say that I have dreamt something else before compared to what I dream now because the past only exists as a thought in the moment now, in this manner there is only Now. Life is not a sum of many separate moments but only one moment which contains all and everything.
Marcus: In the Now there is just sound, not a single word could happen in the now. A word is an illusion of sound appearing in the timeless flow of life which is the eternal moment.
Nicolas: The fact that we see the same tree and that the same is shining on us is not a proof that we are present in a “reality“ which could be different from our night-dream, because it could very well be that in your dream we go on a walk together and then we also see the same tree and the same sun shines at us... and everything seems to be as real as in the state of consciousness in which are now.
Marcus: "We" are not present in "reality". The real appears as us: Life is one singular flow of energy. This flow itself is illusory and not real. The real is pure light. We are not in a state of consciousness but held in thought form.
Nicolas: In fact we could not say with any certainty whether we are awake now or dream a night dream because, as our night dreams appear sometimes real to us, how could be said with certainty that we are not in a night-dream right now?
Marcus: The capacity of the mind to imagine is unimaginable.
Nicolas: Could there be something like a waking state at all as the opposite to our night-dreams or are there just a multitude of dreams or just one all containing dream?
Marcus: All your ideas deny existence of the illusion which life is: The mind dreams that it does not exist. Life is an illusory play of light and sound and it does exist, but not in the manner, the mind thinks. This is Maya. I care for you, and for humanity, because I understand that you exist, illusory though it is. This is how life cares for itself.
Dear Marcus,
I agree totally with your comments, for they express the same which I also tried to express but with other words! We use different terms but the statement is the same in the end. If many people describe the same picture in a museum they will do it in different manners: one talks about how the image is assembled, the second one talks about the choice of colors, the third defines the style and compares it with other pictures... but they describe one and the same picture. Words are basically relative. Even if one is convinced that the own description is right this does not mean that all the others are wrong. In your last sentence you say to me that I deny the existence of the illusion. This is not the case: The illusion exists as an illusion. Even in this point we agree.
Nicolas
Dear Nicolas.
Happy for you that you admit that illusory does not mean it does not exist. Life and the understanding of life however, is not about right and wrong. The depth of understanding reflects in the quality of deeds, speech and thoughts of an apparent individual, illusory it may be. The depth of understanding is reflected in a so called philosophical discussion as well as in daily life in our so called relationships. Arguments fade away, anger transforms itself into awareness and compassion arises spontaneously without any effort for understanding that life is an illusion means to understand that man is not the doer, speaker and thinker of any real act, any real word or any real thought.
Love, Marcus